Cadillac in Southern Ontario
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Author Topic: 1952 thru 1956 Cadillac Carburetor problem  (Read 2190 times)
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The Johnny
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« on: December 27, 2009, 03:49:16 PM »

Folks,

Presently rebuilding a Rochester 4 Barrell off a 1953 Cadillac, but the issue is the same from 1952 Through 1956 with both Rochester and Carter Carburetors.

The picture, I hope shows the barrier between the primary and secondary float bowls of the carburetor. This allows each side float bowl to have a different adjustment and therefore a different level of gas in the float bowls.

From my perspective the problem is that with our wonderful new gas, with Alcohol, and some without all the good detergents, gas goes bad quicker and starts to build up gum and such.

If you only drive the old beauty occasionally and Baby her, then you may not be replacing the gas in the secondary side of the carburetor. The new gas flows into the secondary when it is kicked in -- when one floors the gas then holds it there. So you, if you have one of these (Buick and Olds were prone to this also) ponder sticking your foot on the petal and burning some gas from the secondary side. If the old gas goes bad in the secondary bad things begin to happen to the carburetor -- which generally costs the owner money.

It might be fun, but watch out for the long arm of the law.

The Johnny


* 53 Cad Rochester Carburetor #2.jpg (171.49 KB, 1152x648 - viewed 186 times.)
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guidematic
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2009, 04:21:10 PM »


 Well there you have it folks!

 The alcohol we all have to deal with is not good for our engines, and we should not let it sit. Now, I have been told that Shell gasolines do bot have any alcohol added. But in this country, our high compression engines require the octane that is only available with Sunoco Ultra 94 which is up to 15% alcohol.

 However, I have been running my '70 on this with no issues so far. 16 years. But it has only one float bown in the Quadra-Jet.

 Mike
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1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1987 Brougham 6DW69
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69
Coupe deVille
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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2009, 04:38:24 PM »

Fascinating analysis of the problem at hand Johnny, you were certainly worthy of your ROTY-A but I digress, Mike Jones is the resident auto technician here ( well schooled in the fine art of antiquated carburetor toilet bowl fuel delivery devices ), could lead to an interesting analysis.

I really enjoy rebuilding carburetors ever since I tackled my 66 429 Carter under your tutelage , after the Napa cheapo rebuild kit I forked over the $ 50 to the Carburetor Shop with new metering rods, jets, idle mixture screws and pump ball check valve. ( All I need to do now 5 years later is get the 66 CDV back on the road )

The Johnny is my hero, "Capt Sun Machine" fine collection of vintage Cadillac's and a glutton for punishment ( required repair work )

BTW ........ you joined this forum fully well aware of the fact we like to break cojones....


CDV aka Poot Man 
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ST Dog
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 08:07:41 AM »

Now, I have been told that Shell gasolines do bot have any alcohol added.

Not true in the States.

I've found a few BP stations that claim to be alcohol free, but not all.
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guidematic
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 08:21:11 AM »


 I got into a discussion with a Shell proprietor up in Haliburton last time I was up there. We got into the alcohol discussion, and that's when he said not Shell gasolines contained it. Maybe this is a Canada only scenario? It needs further investigation.

 We do not have any BP stations here.

 Mike
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1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1987 Brougham 6DW69
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69
EXCRUISERGUY
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 09:34:08 AM »




 We do not have any BP stations here.

 

Wasn't BP taken over by Gulf oil, which is now Petro Canada?

As for alcohol. I see "May contain up to 10% Ethonal" at every pump
I've seen. I believe they use alcohol in winter to prevent
Gas line freezing.

GJ
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guidematic
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 09:49:10 AM »

[

Wasn't BP taken over by Gulf oil, which is now Petro Canada?



GJ

 Yes, it was.

 Mike
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1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1987 Brougham 6DW69
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69
ST Dog
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 10:16:18 AM »

Wasn't BP taken over by Gulf oil, which is now Petro Canada?

No. BP bought Amoco and ARCO and is still running strong.

Gulf merged with Chevron. But many of the US retail outlets were sold to BP (and a refinery) in 1985.
Many of the station names didn't change until the mid 90s though.

The Canadian production (drilling/pumping) operations were sold to Conoco in 2002.

Mean while, Petro-Canada bought a lot of Canadian BP stations an refineries in 1983. Then in '85 they bought the Gulf Canadian retail network.
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guidematic
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 10:57:26 AM »


 It was Fina that was originally taken over by Petro-Canada in 1979 under Trudeau, I think it was. It then became a political issue which resulted in the falling of the short lived minority Conservative Gov't under Joe Clarke. Then after Trudeau took over again, he did exactly what Clark said he would have too do to sustain the operations. Then Petro-Canada took over Gulf.

 A lot of these stations were on the same corner, so it resulted in many being closed down. Many Mom and Pop stations were just shuttered leaving them with basically nothing.

 Gulf bought BP here in the early 70's. In the end that resulted in no BP, Gulf or Fina stations. It's still that way.

 Mike
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When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading

1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1987 Brougham 6DW69
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69
ST Dog
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 12:05:13 PM »

Gulf bought BP here in the early 70's. In the end that resulted in no BP, Gulf or Fina stations. It's still that way.

Then how would Petro-CCanada buy BP stations and refineries in '83?
And this states that they didn't even exist until 1975
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_Canada#History
Quote
Petro-Canada was founded as a Crown Corporation in 1975 by an act of Parliament and it started its operations on 1 January 1976.
...
In 1976, Petro-Canada purchased Atlantic Richfield Canada, in 1978 Pacific Petroleums, and in 1981 Petrofina. Most of the original Petro-Canada refineries and service stations were acquired from British Petroleum Canada in 1983. In 1985, Petro-Canada acquired the Canadian retail stations of Gulf.


This page, http://www.canadianheritage.org/enterprises/gulfcanadaresources/index.htm,
discussed the oil drilling company and the history with British American Oil, but nothing about the gas stations.


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EXCRUISERGUY
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 10:04:33 AM »

I remember what happened quite well as I had an uncle that
 was a big executive at Gulf oil when it was taken over by Petro Can.
It was the Canadian Govt that bought out Gulf in Canada and then shut down
our refineries. Oil is no longer refined in Canada at all.
 I haven't seen a BP station (Supertest up here) in probabbly 30 years.

GJ
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guidematic
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 11:11:36 AM »


 OK, I think I have got something mixed up. It was BA that was bought out by Gulf.

 I can't ever recall seeing a BP station here anyway, and our Supertest stations, that were flogged as a Canadian company, may or may not have had anything to do with BP.

 Mike
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When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading

1970 Fleetwood Brougham 68169
1987 Brougham 6DW69
1990 Brougham d'Elegance 6DW69
1994 Fleetwood Brougham 6DW69
billandlori
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 11:32:54 AM »

Back to the carb deal, on the Rochester or Charter carbs is there a secondary idle? I know on the Holleys I've worked on you can set the secondaries to draw a bit from the back. This keeps some fuel being used when ever its running.

Or just take out to a side road and giver!!

Bill
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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2009, 07:10:53 PM »

Johnny,

Have you enginered a solution yet to deal with this problem ?

You seem like an engineer of sorts, ( mad scientist ) what with all that diagnostic equipment you have in your laboratory, okay to wear your white coat in the lab, match the guys when they come to take you away ........ to that funny place ........ then you can play with carburetors all day long without your tools, Sun Machines, Kent Moore special tools, shop manuals, etc.

I've been told you are " an excellent driver ". We'll make sure they stock plenty of red wine in the cellar for you.

CDV   
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ST Dog
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2009, 06:12:35 PM »

Back to the carb deal, on the Rochester or Charter carbs is there a secondary idle? I know on the Holleys I've worked on you can set the secondaries to draw a bit from the back. This keeps some fuel being used when ever its running.

Not on the Q-Jet.

Have you enginered a solution yet to deal with this problem ?

Only solutions I see are to either cut the divider making a single bowl, or as Bill mentioned force the secondaries open a bit so the fuel is used.
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